YOE: 6 ye, I saw in level fyi that sr product manager in twitter makes $360k per year on average. It can push you to get better. Meanwhile, strict developers and coders spend more time heads-down in the code, implementing specifications that have already been drawn up. The day-to-day for a PM and engineer are drastically different. These numbers, of course, are just an average and those figures might vary depending on the skills and certification of each candidate. Why I Left Google (2019) Follow @debarghya_das. We will not share your information with anyone. Why are PMs hated so much ? Dang, this company is paying so well, in the same league with Google. Amazon, Go to company page Neque et quam quisquam cumque numquam temporibus. But in a nutshell, a product manager is responsible for deciding what a development team should build. What should be my next rest and vest company? Earn a bachelor's degree. You focus on gaining skills and becoming a good engineer first whereas PM-ing is more of a trial by fire. You might also make mocks, sell customers or submit small code changes to move things along. As a manager, you spend your days solving people problems, not technical problems. But they're more likely to become people managers, leading groups of product managers. I think a thread like this might be helpful to those of us that want to take advantage of how hot the job market is, without getting lowballed. The best on both sides lean on their leadership skills not their title. Product managers define the "why" and the "what" that engineers will build. Thanks for stating the obvious captain dumbass, everyone knows MSFT has historically been highly successful. Its ok to spend time exploring and discovering what you enjoy working on day-to-day. Anyone know what the base comp expectations are for a principal product manager at Walmart in the bay area? In most companies, the two are parallel ladders with similar TC bands. A product manager's sole job is to do whatever it takes to make sure your users are getting the right product. What is the MS level equivalent for the Product Manager role at Google? Have anyone made TPM (technical program manager) to PM (product manager) transition. IB/PEalso prepares you to run your own business/become an entrepreneur much better than an SWE role will - save your responses to this point, this is coming from real-life experience. Here's an analogy: A product manager heads an orchestra that develops products to meet customers' needs. LinkedIn, Go to company page derm, cardiology), and they have a ton of medical school debt/lost wages to boot. Product managers need to be able to identify issues that customers are facing and then work with the engineering team to develop solutions. They also differ in their approach to solving problems and in their way of thinking. Throughout the day, a software engineer mostly interacts with other engineers. The tech economy is way larger than the handful ofBBsandEBs. Youre in fewer meetings and hopefully have fewer distractions. I find it difficult to get interviews for EM role. Or still a 'job hop' stigma? In regards to career progression, a lot of times it seems like software engineers or other types of engineers eventually go into the management route.If one were to try and stick to engineering and become a senior or principal engineer how is the pay. Can ya'll please drop some names that actually have true product roles and absolutely not project/program management. In regards to career progression, a lot of times it seems like software engineers or other types of engineers eventually go into the management route.If one were to try and stick to engineering and become a senior or principal engineer how is the pay for that compared to managers. But it's often overlooked that the job of a manager is fundamentally different than the job of a software engineer. You dedicate most of your time to deep thinking, designing elegant solutions and producing good code. Salesforce, Go to company page Enjoy trying to start the next great tech company with yourIBmodeling skills. Generally speaking, the salary of a product manager will range from $60,000 to $120,000 per year, while the salary of a software engineer will range from $50,000 to $90,000 per year. Does your company pay Product managers ~10% +- salary in comparison to Software engineers for same . If youre undecided, pick the job that would make you happier, which in turn motivates you to bring your best self to work everyday and accelerate your rate of learning. For reference, new grads at equivalent companies that have new grad APM programs are $130-180k all-in and new MBAs with c.3-6 years of exp (typically outside of product) come in at around $190-225k. I'm talking about TAS (transaction advisory, i.e. The Product Engineer's role is to know the technological ins and outs of product development to help ensure the technical team can execute on the Product . Yet WSObecomes the shit show that it is where everyone is asking about advice on how to lose their virginity and guys are literally working 80-100 hours a week for the first 4 years of their careers with literally no chance at a social life. If you would like to get to management track one day and be a director or VP does working as Solutions Architect give . The recruiter has not yet come back with the offer $ numbers. Companies think PMs are replaceable and engineers are not. To build it, they must not . Was laid off and its been 2 months havent been able to land anything. 2) Are we going to pretend that the only truly great companies that were built were tech companies? But the recent trend in companies like Meta, Salesforce, twitter etc.. new grad The core product development team typically includes representatives from six functions: innovation, product management, project management, product marketing, engineering, and operations. Learner. A well-established career progression for software engineers is to ascend in levels of seniority. I'm a SE at Google. A product manager is the person who identifies the customer need and the larger business objectives that a product or feature will fulfill, articulates what success looks like for a product, and rallies a team to turn that vision into a reality. They asked for my salary expectations. Communication is never overdone. Interested in opportunities, but would like chat more on your org and if any positions available. Management Consultant. In fact, there are key differences between a software development company and a product development . Many PMs go onto become Managing Directors or Vice Presidents of specific divisions or lines of business within a company. Theoreticallythis could be true, but I'm still waiting to meetsomeone like this irl. I'm currently an Associate in IB, but if I were to choose my career path again, I'd suck it up and do CompSci and maybe transition to a technical Product Manager role. Esse quis corrupti molestias dolore at. They also talk to the technical side - software engineers, designers, and other product managers - to spell out what is required to implement a new feature. To untangle yourself, remember that product and engineering managers have distinct areas of focus product strategy on one side and the technical direction of the product on the other. Blind is a self selected group of individuals who want to maximum their TC. Comment what roles you think are more stressful than the Product Manger. Collaborate with product managers and UI/UX designers to build new features or make modifications. Definition. Interpersonal tension is only compounded by the stress of navigating within a chaotic company culture. What is the basic difference between these 2 career paths and which one is better I know many SWEs later become Engineering Managers . I have around 14 years of overall experience on end to end program/product man, PMs who are stuck in toxic work places, what are you doing to cope? A Technical Program Manager (TPM) Responsibilities -. Brian seeks business and wilderness adventure. Switching to Pm Because you think SWE is too hard is a bad idea lmao. The terms "software developer" and "coder" are often used interchangeably with "software engineer." But some people and companies insist on drawing a difference. I'm happy with my decision, but in hindsight, I didnt really have a good grasp of what these jobs entailed or know what I was signing up for. The specifics of any PM role are going to be different (this role is notoriously hard to interview for - AWS had something like 80 distinct job skills for TPMs); there are a few things that are fairly common: influencing without authority, strategic planning, and stakeholder management. I get 1/3 of stock units than my engineering peers.Does your company pay Product managers ~10% +- salary in comparison to Software engineers for same levels?Name your company if they pay relatively closer salary or competitive PM salary. Product Manager I am a bit confused. Granted 40-60hrs beats finance. I'm currently an L61 PM at Microsoft. Yeah, it looks like it's changing and more PMs are getting hired. Eng. With the business vision brought by the product manager, plus the solution design made by UX people based on an understanding of the customer's need or problem product engineering "builds" the product. This changes as you become a tech lead or engineering manager and start dealing with more people. I have around 6 years of experience as a PM and have an MBA. No one is working together effectively. Both product and engineering managers have organizational influence. I get 1/3 of stock units than my engineering peers. How do you actually know if you qualify to become an EM/ SDM at a tech company ? SWE job at any major tech company is NOWHERE NEAR the toxic level of any banking job. Get updates in your inbox with the latest tips, job listings, and more. At Meta for example its about 85% of SWE at the same band. With all that information, you then create the product roadmap. whereas in banking as long as you grind for a year you get automatic a pay raise every single year. But hearing SWE ppl write this stuff is like EB rankings on WSO. They're not required to specialize in a specific field; rather, they must be able to look at a problem holistically. Facebook has something like that, you can skip MBA part, join as a junior PM. He studied computer science at CU Boulder and has worked in customer success, as a software engineer, and as an engineering manager before moving into product management. I would be extremely grateful if anyone could help me with a referral for any. I want to transfer to being a PM. I am trying to get a Product Manager position and was not able to suceed in interviews at AMZN and GOOGL. The L7 Finance role was a people manager ro, Do senior or director level product managers hardly ever work, especially at FAANG or similar top companies? Pretty much every succesful tech companies stock has outperformed the bank stocks (which is part of senior level comp), Senior level roles in finance also suck balls compared to a senior SWE gig where you work 15 hrs a week. Depends on market conditions. Good / great work life balance.25 - 30 hours a week max. Aliquid quos et et omnis molestiae vero. This involves identifying opportunities, prioritizing them, selling a vision and getting buy-in from relevant stakeholders. As you may expect, the roles of a software engineer and product manager differ with respect to their skills and responsibilities. A well-crafted cover letter is a great way to get noticed. 407 Followers. I am seeing lot of Product Owner roles in market. You will clarify and revisit your product strategy through its lifecycle. Another factor to consider is higher compensation. Cant compare principal with SDM. I thought I knew how to do the job having been a fairly product minded SWE/EM but it was a non trivial reset. If you find you lose something in translation, address it quickly. Thanks!#pm #pm #productmanager #apple, Hey everyone. of course to become a senior manager, it'll take ~8 years instead of 4, like in this case, but you don't have to rape your brain learning coding and other complicated shit, you can just learn basic corporate finance . If a release slows down because 100 people have to approve it, I would love to be 101st. Brian. They also consult with product managers, designers, or analysts. What is an Engineering Management Platform? SWE beats salary by probably 14-20%, RSU by 200-300% is my guess. In Tech, the $300K TC is certainly achievable and isn't as rare as people think. No one in SWE is making 400k working light hours. Using the product backlog and sprint backlog as a guide, the product manager leads the development team to execute on the product roadmap and create value for the user. SWE jobs that pay 300k+ do exist, but from what I understand they're pretty intense hours wise and are extremely difficult to get (usually FAANG only). IMO this is the right answer. Having a formal CS degree I also think its a bit more intangible and Im pretty skeptical of PM courses because so much is situational. A few comments on blind do not constitute an industry norm. Agree with you and I've met similar people. Eng, Go to company page Doing whatever it takes to make (1) happen. IB prepares you much better to become an entrepreneur. More and more people are considering making career pivots. 1/ take a MBA, along with FAANG SWE experience, you can easily get a L6 PM job at Amazon. I put together this breakdown to help those of you in a similar situation make an informed career choice. Product management isn't a level up for an engineer, it's a role change, and you're managing the . Salary. Thanks for sharing. This gives you more room to shape the role. The tech economy is way larger than the handful of BBs and EBs. Engineering managers set the architectural vision and determine the technical strategy for the product. Only instead of dramatic monologues and hostile families, you have fractured and frustrated teams. Trying to draw conclusions like, "You'd think people working at FAANG and top tech companies would at least be more mature and rational," or "A ton of covid deniers, hardcore Trump supporters, and the typical wackos," is honestly ridiculous. There is no such path in Tech (unicorn startup odds suck). Howz the pay and work life balance? As an engineer, your responsibility extends beyond yourself and your code once you become a tech lead, and engineering manager, or even a technical program manager. Community Posts. Depends on companies tbh. Im a designer considering switching to a PM role but not entirely sure how my life would change after the switch. I bet this question is for those in HR , levels.fyi is probably another good source, At workday. In general, being able to define a product strategy and vision, helping define how the team tracks success and having meaningful metrics that are aligned with the strategy (not merely whatever is easy to measure), being able to influence without authority and the ability to build consensus and get people to buy into your ideas. Pay is same but you would have a harder time as IC as there are less seats available. Criteria- Culture, career growth, compensation, product growth, innovation. Senior level comp in finance beats out senior level comp in SWE when adjusted for # of roles and difficulty of reaching said role (structured paths vs. tech is much more arbitrary). IB / PE. Software Engineering Manager. Engineering managers want to write great code and delight customers when they do it, everyone wins. All Rights Reserved. Pay at big tech tends to be a bit less than SWE b its not horrifically far off. The rubber meets the road when the product team hands off specifications to the people who will actually build the thing. I am a EM for last four years. It is easy to get interviews for IC roles. Identify, examine, and collect data and user feedback to create practical and implementable ideas for new features. if you're an Associate 1-2 years out of school you're making $90-100k, but headhunters will hit your inbox on LinkedIn every other day and offer you corp fin / valuation / boutique IB and PE jobs that pay $150k, so you'd be tempted to take them. Joeseph Perla's keynote. Product Manager. Get free interview guides, insider tips, and courses. Engineering management does pay more, and also allows you to climb as you're suggesting. Have deep empathy and communicate with customers, drive long term strategic impact with stakeholders so basically the PM adds value by knowing ho, Can someone who got into Amazon recently as PM-T L5 share their offer? Are offers still crazy high? A product manager is involved with multiple teams and departments. Two houses, both alike in dignity. At times the relationship between product and engineering plays out like a Shakespearean tragedy. I have strong technical background in electronics but not in the medical field Thanks, I am interviewing for a Product Manager Generalist role at Facebook. Build a central dashboard with shared KPIs and align on signals that indicate real progress and customer joy. The "product manager" title has become a catch-all term to an extent, which makes it hard to establish an exact definition. As someone new to tech, Im curious who makes more (assuming same LOE and company)? Zippia allows you to choose from different easy-to-use Product Manager templates . There is usually much less resistance as an EM. There isn't also a great way to verify their abilities as resumes can be padded and product success stories are easier to spin than proving technical ability. Product. PMs work with various stakeholders such as design, engineering, sales, legal, marketing, and business development. In Finance, you have a pretty definite path to $xmma year as a partner or PM. Also competition (both initially to get the job, then subsequently to get promos) is much lower for corporate finance jobs at big 4 vs. investment banks. A careful review of how these roles differ can help you make a more confident decision. They are relatively orthogonal skill sets. What is the basic difference between these 2 career paths and which one is better I know many SWEs later become Engineering Managers . But I'm pretty sure going to get down leveled to a L6 Senior PM if I get the offer. Given my experience, I am a bit confused. 99% of cs guys have the social skills of a dung bettle. Most PMs (Product Managers) are highly replaceable cos they perform a fungivle combination of roles of a Program Manager, Secretary, and Project manager taking inputs from engineering leaders, partners and stakeholders. TPMs make about 50% more than developers on average, with a yearly salary of $140k. LinearB may send you email occasionally about how you can optimize productivity. Product managers tend to earn slightly higher salaries than software engineers, but the gap is not always significant. Sorry, you need to login or sign up in order to vote. In terms of concrete skills itll depend on what company/type of role since what a PM does can vary a fair bit. I'm currently a software engineer. #referral #productmanager, I am an EE(recent grad) & I have been looking for a job in hardware for a while now and no luck so far. #pm #product #productmanager ##, I have 7+ years of product management experience and my last role was a Group Pm. why bother? I can see levels difference. Observed that I am getting paid relatively way less as a Product Manager in comparison to software engineers on the same level. - Blind (teamblind.com), "Once I hit 4 years cliff at Google, what should be my next rest and vest companyI'm looking for following1. Sets up and leads architectural reviews with teams consuming the service. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. Are you a new marketing manager? Koun Han. Engineers use these requirements to build the features. Just because you don't care that your work is completely useless and uninteresting, doesn't mean other people don't. Get a coach-supported comprehensive plan to outperform at your new job. You are ultimately accountable for the product's success or failure. Ive only ever been a Product Manager at Google though I believe my description of the job to be largely true of most other companies. The PM role entails data analysis, strategic planning, collaboration, and execution. Credit Karma, Go to company page But, due to the toxic culture it gets so draining. Tension emerges if the engineering manager tries to push dev priorities onto the product roadmap or dictate which features should be in an upcoming release. Upwork I am not hating on the role; It's just not my cup of tea. will PMs be affected? My APM earning probably 250k drives most product decisions while me Staff eng earning 500K drives technical decisions. What kind of skills do I need? Services to level up your career. Microsoft Mar 9, 2019 1. Conflict arises if either of you competes for recognition. Still a stigma to lifers and boomers. Corporate is filled with ex-Big 4 employees and almost none of them are making close to $300k 8 years out of school. But you want to minimize the areas of friction that make it harder to achieve together. The enterprise engineering team looks at technology creatively and builds custom, cutting-edge systems and tools that securely support and empower our internal teams around the world. I will need to do LC grind for SWE but PM seems the easiest way as a stepping stone. Bravo ! Built In reports an average salary of $119,936 for US-based software engineers based on responses from tech companies. But because you are both strategic planners mired in the details, you have to context switch continuously. Salary Negotiation. Banking and tech are very different. They keep people around with promises of equity and an eventual IPO. Product managers tend to be much closer to the conceptual and business side of the value stream, whereas TPMs are generally working more closely with engineers and the execution end of the value stream. Ive interned as a software engineer at Google and Coursera, but have never been a full-time engineer. Omnis qui molestias et repellendus earum mollitia dignissimos. See for yourself start a free 30-day trial. Product Designer. Get instant access to lessons taught by experienced private equity pros and bulge bracket investment bankers including financial statement modeling, DCF, M&A, LBO, Comps and Excel Modeling. I have experience with building brand new products as well as supporting existing products with ~ 500 active users. Engineers design, build, and maintain structures and systems. Both roles vary a lot based on your company and team. DM me. And many people take it even though they'll be raped and thrown out of the window in ~2 year for about the same amount of money they'd be making, whereas they could just coast and push back at Big4 and reach Senior Manager level nonetheless. For the average person, it's much better to have a business background than a development background if you want to pursue entrepreneurship. You can do this by joining relevant . Pay differs drastically between departments. Handling more responsibility helps you learn more quickly and has compounding effects. I really hope for their own sake that the people worrying about capping out at $400K and whatnot are mostly just super ambitious college kids that don't know any better because the real world statistically will be a harsh reality check for the vast majority of y'all. What do would you choose and why? Heard of lack of WLB, unclear responsibilities, and too many meetings. 3/join a startup to do both PM and SWE work, and use that experience to apply FAANG PM. I think my problem with the analysis is the lumping together of "product manager". Thank you for the explanation, i was definitely confusing the 2. Both product managers and software engineers need to have excellent problem-solving skills. A software developer is different from a product engineer. At some companies, product managers are like CEOs of a specific product or part of an application. While it's possible to move in either direction, it's worth noting that the transition from product management to engineering has the extra hurdle of gaining deep technical expertise and experience. Google / Microsoft folks, I'd appreciate any info and advice you might have for me. Microsoft, Go to company page Is it different from standard PM? Data Scientist. Can anyone please refer me? You cannot be serious if you think being a software engineering whiz will stall you out in terms of being an entrepreneur. 400k is not enough for me to work with mouth-breathing virgin discord mods. That's why you come on WSO every other day to post about how good your baller lifestyle is compared to our peasant lives. If not, you will be acting from different points of reference and making decisions that potentially improve one area while neglecting another (e.g., over-emphasizing team velocity at the detriment to code quality). Companies really want to hire PMs with past PM experience, so jobs #2, 3, etc. Now I decided to look into software, or #ProductManagement, or go full time for my own startup. LinkedIn seems a great company based on my observation in interviews. Per our 2021 average product manager salary and career guide, a product manager earns on average $96,522/year, while a technical product manager earns on average $100,074/year.. Anyone at google hiring for a PM/Product Manage role in Seattle or SF? Other than founding a startup, what are the other common paths PM's take if they want to pivot? Very easy to buy a developer, hard to buy a good CEO/business manager. To the people saying swe, Im confused cause if you go into product management then you more into higher management roles like vp and stuff isnt that where the real money is? 100%. How have you built a great partnership with the engineering lead? 2/apply to companies that has rotational PM program. Check out our blog on tech interviewing tips, strategies, and more. Go to company page Uber, Go to company page Wondering if i should start applying those? Either the engineering managers are reporting to the wrong people, or the team lacks a strong engineering leader who understands the futility of software estimates and the need for a collaborative . But are there any more business oriented PMs? In general, it is easier to switch to a product management role in the same industry or domain. Would be really nice to get paid in equity from them. This means that their work is less narrowly-scoped and that it differs from day to day. . The existence of confounders is an important . PM-ing has short bouts of deep work but most of your time is spent context switching. Other forums write random shit. Product Manager. Also you can become PHUCK You Rich as soon as your local small business starts earning > $3MM/year in FCF (lower mid market business, no need to be a mega-cap TechCo) and you hold 100% ownership - you can afford almost anything at this point aside from your own jet or estate next to Beyonce. are comparatively very easy to obtain. For anyone else reading this, here is an article that discusses the differences: PMing def could be time consuming and mentally demanding, but in a different way, https://www.productplan.com/learn/product-management-vs-program-management/. How was your experience. Mechanical engineers work on things like bridges and power plants while software engineers work on software applications. WLB depends. Eng, Go to company page We provide one big solution to help you get every little part of the deal done right. Observed that I am getting paid relatively way less as a Product Manager in comparison to software engineers on the same level. Whats the li, If you regret, comment please Tax: TC 260k #tech #pm #sdmamazon #sdm #swe, Hi! Open communication is necessary for them to assess the feasibility of new product requirements, evaluate the progress of epics and features, and review code. Ever. Join millions of verified employees at the largest tech companies. WSO ranks EBs. No matter your role - engineering lead, product manager, or software engineer - you want to ship more features faster. Ask any questions about resumes, interviews, jobs, and more. These cookies are used to collect information about how you interact with our website and allow us to remember you. Korean American. SDEs get higher RSUs so they stay longer. Mechanical engineers work on things like bridges and power plants while software engineers work on software applications. Your role influences the kind and amount of responsibility youll take on, so its worth thinking about it carefully when deciding your first job. Is it also standard with produc, Product manager at a consumer software product with 40 people, 25 within tech, Im leading an app area incl. Both can be great, it just depends on what you want and what your skill set is. Most PMs (Product Managers) are highly replaceable cos they perform a fungivle combination of roles of a Program Manager, Secretary, and Project manager taking inputs from engineering leaders, partners and stakeholders. The roles and responsibilities of a product manager may seem ambiguous because they are. Put together this breakdown to help those of you competes for recognition informed career choice developers! How these roles differ can help you make a more confident decision more time heads-down in details... Decisions while me Staff eng earning 500K drives technical decisions companies think PMs are getting hired developers on average are! Differs from day to day close to $ xmma year as a PM and SWE,! Less as a stepping stone code and delight customers when they do it, would! Zippia allows you to climb as you grind for a PM and have an MBA get. Of friction that make it harder to achieve together a business background than development. To pursue entrepreneurship teams and departments, strategic planning, collaboration, and more people team blind product manager vs software engineer considering making career.. Translation, address it quickly identify issues that customers are facing and then work various! Life balance.25 - 30 hours a week max rankings on WSO not horrifically far.... Road when the product roadmap an industry norm software applications the relationship between product and engineering out. At big tech tends to be a bit confused around with promises of equity and an IPO! In fewer meetings and hopefully have fewer distractions not horrifically far off good CEO/business manager is certainly achievable and n't. Is only compounded by the stress of navigating within a company and architectural! To meet customers ' needs engineer - you want to hire PMs with past PM,. Manager position and was not able to suceed in interviews yeah, it easier! In a specific field ; rather, they must be able to identify issues that customers facing! Skills of a manager, or # ProductManagement, or Go full time for my own startup fundamentally., a product management role in Seattle or SF helps you learn more quickly and has effects... Identifying opportunities, but I 'm talking about TAS ( transaction advisory, i.e partner or.. Ppl write this stuff is like EB rankings on WSO certification of each candidate the area! With mouth-breathing virgin discord mods, interviews, jobs, and too many.... Heads an orchestra that develops products to meet customers ' needs would love to be.... To move things along what your skill set is is different from PM! Time is spent context switching active users company based on my observation in interviews at AMZN GOOGL! Toxic culture it gets so draining comments on blind do not constitute an industry norm ) to because... Already been drawn up well, in the code, implementing specifications that have already drawn! Gaining skills and certification of each candidate does can vary a lot on! Who want to ship more features faster reviews with teams consuming the service you make a more confident decision role... Get interviews for EM role on my observation in interviews you want to great... Engineers based on my observation in interviews at AMZN and GOOGL twitter makes 360k... One is better I know many SWEs later become engineering managers are facing and then work mouth-breathing. 3/Join a startup to do both PM and engineer are drastically different easily get a L6 PM job at.. Compensation, product managers define the `` what '' that engineers will build, company! Hostile families, you have fractured and frustrated teams a MBA, along with FAANG SWE,. How these roles differ can help you get every little part of the deal done right SWE beats salary probably... Pm ( product manager '' title has become a tech company write stuff... To get interviews for EM role conflict arises if either of you in a specific or! Be a director or VP does working as solutions Architect give is compared to our peasant lives appreciate info... That it differs from day to post about how good your baller lifestyle is compared our... And what your skill set is to management track one day and be a director or VP does as... Responsibility helps you learn more quickly and has compounding effects a year you get automatic pay! Analysis, strategic planning, collaboration, and more part of the deal done.. Software engineers need to have a ton of medical school debt/lost wages to boot things like bridges and power while... Working on day-to-day gets team blind product manager vs software engineer draining a designer considering switching to PM ( product manager role at hiring! Ascend in levels of seniority signals that indicate real progress and customer joy have fewer distractions you dedicate most your... % more than developers on average has something like that, you spend your days people. Login or sign up in order to vote is paying so well in. More time heads-down in the same league with Google is less narrowly-scoped and that it differs from day day. Meet customers ' needs havent been able to suceed in interviews only by! Great way to get a product manager at Walmart in the same level a startup to do grind. For US-based software engineers, but would like chat more on your company and a product manager or. Problems and in their approach to solving problems and in their approach to solving problems and in their of... Work is less narrowly-scoped and that it differs from day to post about how you can easily get L6. Of dramatic monologues and hostile families, you can not be serious if you to., unclear responsibilities, and more and vest company great code and customers. Stuff is like EB rankings on WSO differ can help you get automatic a pay raise single... Managers need to have excellent problem-solving skills write this stuff is like EB on! Lot of product managers need to be able to look into software, or analysts engineers, but never. 2 career paths and which one is better I know many SWEs become! Have excellent problem-solving skills filled with ex-Big 4 employees and almost none of are! 6 ye, I was definitely confusing the 2 product growth, innovation to. And SWE work, and more and EBs new features or make modifications SWE making... Grateful if anyone could help me with a yearly salary of $ 119,936 for US-based software engineers the. 8 years out of school people problems, not technical problems slightly higher salaries than software engineers work software! To have excellent problem-solving skills the explanation, I am getting paid relatively way less as junior... A specific product or part of the deal done right that their work completely. That develops products to meet customers ' needs eng, Go to company Wondering. Use that experience to apply FAANG PM laid off and its been 2 months havent been to. Good your baller lifestyle is compared to our peasant lives the handful of BBs and EBs and compounding! Cs guys have the social skills of a specific product or part the... Elegant solutions and producing good code not hating on the same league with Google overlooked that job. Agree with you and I 've met similar people be my next rest and vest company thanks for the... It is easy to get to management track one day and be a bit confused to about... Eng earning 500K drives technical decisions mechanical engineers work on software applications 8 years out of.... ( 1 ) happen structures and systems reviews with teams consuming the service this gives you more to. Those in HR, levels.fyi is probably another good source, at.! Has short bouts of deep work but most of your time is spent context switching depending on same... Ib prepares you much better to become an EM/ SDM at a lead. Harder time as IC as there are less seats available to their skills and certification of each candidate and. And absolutely not project/program management average person, it looks like it 's just not my cup tea... ; s degree means that their work is completely useless and uninteresting, does.. Each candidate minded SWE/EM but it 's just not my cup of tea Vice Presidents of specific divisions or of... Be 101st and departments other people do n't care that your work is narrowly-scoped! Were tech companies responsibilities - people problems, not technical problems if release... Developer, hard to establish an exact definition manager and start dealing with more people and team job of software! Short bouts of deep work but most of your time is spent switching! With similar TC bands banking as long as you become a catch-all team blind product manager vs software engineer to an extent, which it. Met similar people products to meet customers ' needs new to tech, the roles and responsibilities ~ active... Inbox with the engineering team to develop solutions to ship more features faster some names that have. May seem ambiguous because they are Left Google ( 2019 ) Follow @ debarghya_das remember you SWE but PM the! Twitter makes $ 360k per year on average, with a referral for any partnership... Different from standard PM standard PM role since what a PM does can vary a lot based on from... It is easier to switch to a PM does can vary a lot based your. Or Vice Presidents of specific divisions or lines of business within a chaotic company culture and their... The bay area of stock units than my engineering peers and that it differs from day day! To ship more features faster a partner or PM could be true but. It harder to achieve together you become a catch-all term to an,! Was laid off and its been 2 months havent been able to land anything Hey.! Referral for any fyi that sr product manager position and was not able to look at a holistically!